Pre-Episode Intro Liz: It's important that we have equal access to everything. Currency being no exception. Chris: This is the Penny Forward podcast. A show about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I'm Chris Peterson. Liz: I'm Liz Bottner. MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter. Chris: And today, we are going to be talking about legislative advocacy. The National Federation of the Blind, and American Council of the blind, both hold advocacy periods at the nation's capitol every year. And the ACB'S advocacy period, called "the DC leadership conference," just ended, and Liz and MOe were there. One of the big deals at the DC leadership conference this year was a rally demonstrating for accessible currency, something that ACB won a law suit to try to get us access to a number of years ago. And the government so far has not delivered accessible currency like the courts mandated. So, ACB protested, and, by all accounts, our message was heard. So Liz and MOe are going to talk about their general experiences with legislative advocacy, and we will be especially focused on the accessible currency issue. Liz, MOe, thanks for being here. Liz: Sure. MOe: No problem. Chris: Liz, let's start with you. Talk about what your experience was like attending the DC leadership conference. Was this your first time, or have you done it before, and kind of just talk us through everything that happened, as much as you can remember it. Liz: This was my first time at the ACB DC leadership conference. This was not my first time in the legislative advocacy space. I have done previous work as far as that's concerned, but in that it was my first time at the ACB DC leadership conference, I wasn't really sure what to expect. I did have some idea because of the virtual sessions that were held prior to the in person component of the conference, which were really helpful to know kind of what things were what, and give me a little bit more of an idea of what to expect. I did not visit the hill. Some states did that, but I was not one of those people who did that. But, uh, in attending the rally, we absolutely were heard in our advocacy efforts. We were heard even before the rally in that several ACB leaders met with the department of treasury an hour before the rally, about an hour before the rally, and had a meeting, and from that meeting, it was determined that by 2026, we should have an accessible ten-dollar bill. So it is up to us to keep that moving forward in terms of being a reality, and just being at the rally, and hearing the collective ACB voice, and even the voice of other organizations who banded together with ACB, uh, the NFB, there were other organizations, I actually don't want to name them by name because I have a feeling I would incorrectly name them, uh, but there were other organizations, and I am appreciative of all of them. Uh, this is definitely a collective effort. Even, uh, Harriet Tubman's, uh, one of her relatives actually sent a message to ACB and said that she was in support of us, of this fight, and if Harriet Tubman were alive, because March tenth was the anniversary of her passing. Uh, but, we do have support from Hariet Tubman, and that was also why it was special to have the rally be on this particular day, because they, the U.S. treasury is redesigning the twenty dollar bill, and putting Hariet Tubman on that, and so some of the chants that we as members were ... were mentioning were, you know, "Show us the tubmans." And some things like that. But also, and the last thing I will say is that it was really powerful and authentic to hear from the speakers, one of whom was one of the original plaintiffs when this issue was first brought to light, and now, so many years later, hopefully, there is actual forward progress. We thought there was gonna be forward progress in 2008 when the court ruling came down, but the fight wasn't over. The fight still is not over, but we are further along, and that, uh, one of the plaintiffs did speak and mention that. That it was good to see progress, but the fight was definitely not over. Chris: Thank you, Liz. So, MOe, I know it definitely was your first time, and I believe you did visit the hill, if I'm not mistaken. Talk about your experience. MOe: I did. I did visit the hill. And it was technically, I believe my first protest, and all of that good stuff, and we had what people will say is not the greatest weather, (Chuckle.) When we did the protest and the rally. But it was still a great showing, even though we were soaking wet, we were hiding under ponchos and umbrellas, and our signs literally melted in the rain. But, we were there, and we, we demanded, "Show me the money," or, as some of us said, "Let us feel the money," (Laugh.) Um, but yes. It, it was a great experience, and we're so happy that they told us that there was not just one bill that was being redesigned, but there are two bills currently being redesigned, so, hopefully, before too long, we will be like every other industrialized nation, and actually have accessible currency in the bills. Because every other industrial country, from my understanding, already has that available. So, we just want to be equal to our peers, I guess. (Chuckle.) Liz: One of the other powerful things for me that happened as part of the rally is that those of us who chose to marched from where we were to the department of the treasury, and stood in front of that building, and demanded what we wanted, accessible currency, now, and had a photo taken of us as a group in front of the treasury. MOe: One of the reasons I was telling some of the other people there that I would like accessible currency is for the fact that, you know, right now, I'm a mom of four, and if I give them allowance, I have to go by their best judgment, and my best judgment, that I'm actually giving them what I said I'm giving them. Because I can't tell the difference between most bills. Um, some of them I can still read the number, kinda sorta, but it has to be in the right light at the right time, and kids aren't necessarily wanting to be honest a hundred percent of the time, because, you know, a five goes a lot further than a one. So, (Chuckle.) That's just kind of a fun part for me for, uh, why I would like it. 'Cause even when we get money back, you can fold it, but that means the person handing you the money back has to be honest. And I found out while I was in DC, I bought some things, and my total came to something 49, for the change, and I handed them fifty cents, and they asked me to be patient with them, because they're not very good at math. And I said, "It should be one penny back for change, thank you." (Chuckle.) So, it just comes to show that people just aren't so attached to their money anymore, and so we really need to fight for this accessibility, 'cause there's no reason that we can't take charge of our own lives. Liz: For those listening who may be wondering, as I was when I first heard that the ten dollar bill was the first bill that they would be looking at redesigning accessibly, "Why the ten dollar bill? That's, hello, like there's a one dollar bill and a five dollar bill that happen before the ten dollar bill." Uh, the ten-dollar bill, apparently, is the least circulated bill, and so that is their rationale for starting with the ten dollar bill. So, wanted to point that out. Chris: What an interesting factoid! So I’m curious to know, did either of you get a chance to talk with any individuals during, before, or after the rally to, to get kind of their views about why accessible currency was important? And uh, so that we don't step on each other, Liz, I'll direct that to you first. Liz: I did talk to one of the people who kind of was in the, the accessible currency fight from the beginning, and, the person mentioned that it, it's important that we have equal access to everything. Currency being no exception. Chris: MOe, how about you? Did you have any conversations with anyone about this issue? MOe: So, most of my conversations with other blind people brought the fact that other countries do have this accessible, and the fact that it's something that we have fought for, and when you go shopping somewhere, you cannot trust what other people have told you bills are, and that there was recently a TV show, I forget what it was, but it showed someone getting take advantage of by getting change back and being lied to about the change that they were given back. And so therefore, now it's fresh in people's minds, 'cause it was a popular TV show, that you could take advantage of a blind person through those means. It's not something that we have had total inaccessibility for, 'cause you can tell the difference in change, for the most part, and that's something that everybody realizes. Your penny is slightly larger than your dime, and it has a smooth edge. Your dimes have a rigid edge, and are the smallest coin, and your nickel is a little thicker, and bigger than your penny, and your quarters also have that ridged edge. So, we do have that little ability with change, but we really need it for the bills. Liz: This did not come up at the rally, but I have been in situations before where people have said to me in asking them about their management of finances as a blind rehab professional, I have gotten the answer that, "Oh, you know, for, for cash, I don't really use that. I just try to, to not use cash 'cause it's hard for me to figure out what it is." I do have to wonder that if there was accessible currency, would that answer to me be different. If you're ever gonna do something, or not do something, the choice that you're making between those two things should not be due to the fact that you can't access it because whatever that thing is is not accessible. Chris: Absolutely. I want to change course for just a second here, because MOe, you, you did say that you visited the hill, and I'm curious to know, what it was like for you to talk with your senators, representatives, and what kinds of issues you were most passionate about. MOe: So for us, our congress, or our state congress people are all currently in our state, so we were only able to meet with their aids, or their staffers, as I heard it otherwise referred to. And I had a group of four people, and the ACB had four imperatives, so I got the lucky task of taking on the medical devices non visual access, which does actually come into our financial needs quite a bit. So I was very happy to actually get that imparitive, and get to talk about that imperative, but we did have three other imperatives that everyone talked about, and we all kind of shared a little story that kind of, why that story impacted our lives, and so, I don't know if we had a great turn-out where I can say those representatives are going to back us without any further questions asked, but I do think that we've opened up the door, and hopefully, we'll get some more information to them, and eventually, we'll have them support those bills as the medical non visual access bill is a bill that is in the house of representatives right now. Chris: All right, well thank you for that. I want to, uh, wrap things up 'cause I think we're kind of running out of time here, so, uh, any final thoughts from either of you about legislative advocacy? About accessible currency? Anything that I didn't think to ask? Liz? Liz: Advocacy absolutely matters. When there are notices that come out for public comment, whether it's yourself as an individual, or by way of an organization that you belong to, make that public comment. Go to the rallies. Go to the protests, in some cases. Go to those meetings. Let your voice be heard. Because no one else is going to be able to tell the story, in this case, of inaccessible websites, medical technologies, limited audio description, fitness equipment that is not accessible, and I think in that example, I just hopefully covered all four of the imperatives that are currently ... MOe: You did. Liz: At play. Um, nobody is gonna tell the story in terms of why it is needed, and what the struggles are, at the current time, better than you are, better than we are, as a collective community of people who are blind or who have low vision, and so by looking at the situation when the notices come out by saying, "Ah, somebody else will do that." No, that may not be the case, and your voice needs to be there. And if you're unsure, and don't know how to, how to make your voice be heard, that is okay, but there are people who are willing to help you figure that out, and be with you, so you don't have to go to the hill alone, 'cause that definitely can be a scary thing, uh, but just advocacy matters, and your story matters, and that is one thing that helps these congress people better understand what the impact of these things passing or not passing would be, is by us showing up and telling our stories. Chris: Thanks, Liz. MOe? MOe: I think one of the biggest things that I've learned is, not only did I go to Washington DC, but a week or two leading up to that, I had my own legislative things going on in my state, so I got to speak to a subcommittee. So I kind of started to learn those processes of how you talk to your legislative branches, and how the inner workings of the legislative process works. So knowing that, and then going there, it's like, you get to tell them fun facts about different things, and how, you know, they want to throw out that this is gonna cost money to make these changes, and you can throw out that one in four people are disabled. And when people are taking charge of their own lives, they're costing the state less money, and they're actually putting into the state's funds, and therefore, putting into the U.s. government funds, so all of it comes back to the fact that when you let us have these abilities, it really does come into financial play that it really helps everyone in the end, and not just us. Chris: Thank you, MOe. I want to offer a final thought of my own here. While I wasn't at the DC leadership conference, and I have never attended the NFB'S Washington Seminar either, I want to point out that MOe is a mom of four, she also has a husband, so she's a pretty busy lady, and Liz has a full time job, and she's a pretty busy lady. And many of us, I think, when we're busy, kind of just figure we don't have the time to take for something like this, and even if we did have the time, it's not gonna make a difference whether we are there or not. And adding to that, it might be expensive to take the trip, to, to fly on the plane, to stay in the hotel, uh, to buy food outside of your home, all these kinds of things. And so we can come up with a lot of reasons not to participate in advocacy events like this. But I do believe that they are very important, they do make a difference, and while the processes are frustratingly slow, if our voice is not voiced, it will never be heard. And so, I think that I would want to encourage all of you to thank the people that did take the time to advocate for our needs as blind people, and I would also encourage you to get involved in your state organization, either NFB or ACB, and consider participating in one or more of these advocacy events. Your opinion, your voice, does matter, and we need your voice, no matter what side of any of these issues you might happen to be on. But it's very good, in my mind, to know that so many people are on board with the idea of accessible currency, because as you know, Penny Forward's entire mission is to help blind people manage their money better, so that we can get, uh, we can get more of us out of ... out of poverty, and, uh, as MOe so, so eloquently said, taking charge of our own lives. So, thank you for listening to this week's podcast. Liz and MOe, thank you for your advocacy efforts, and for giving us this wrap-up of the DC leadership conference and the accessible Currency rally, ... MOe: Can I add one more thing? (Chuckle.) Chris: Please. MOe: I just wanted to add that, and if you are concerned about finances and going to one of these events, I went on a scholarship or a stipend from my state, and I went with two other people that got scholarships from my state, so it does really do you well to go and look for those opportunities, because if it's NFB, if it's ACB, there may be a scholarship that will let you attend. Liz: Also, if you know someone else who is going, maybe you could room with them, and then it would cut costs down that way. There are ways to do it. If, if you're just like, "Nah, there's no way to do it." Yes, there are plenty of ways to do it, and you have every reason to pull up a seat at the table, as anyone else. So, definitely, come. We need your voice, we need your story, and we will help you get there if needed. Chris: Thank you both for those additional details. Those are very important things to, to be mindful of. We will be linking to the YouTube video of the accessible currency rally in the show notes, and we will also be doing another, at least one more, podcast episode on the accessible currency issue and its history. So stay tuned for that coming up on a future episode. Chris: Do you enjoy the Penny Forward podcast, and want to get more financial education content? Go to pennyforward.com and select the "join Penny Forward" link towards the top of the page. By joining Penny Forward, you get early access to every Penny Forward podcast episode, access to our online courses, members only group chats, one on one financial counseling, and much more. Again, go to pennyforward.com and select the "Join Penny Forward" link today. The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Chris Peterson and Liz Bottner, with assistance from MOe Carpenter. Audio editing and post production is provided by Brynn Lee at superblink.org and transcription is provided by Anne Verduin. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to help blind people navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance through education, mentoring, and mutual support. For all of us in the Penny Forward community, I'm Chris Peterson. Liz: I'm Liz Bottner. MOe: AND I'm MOe Carpenter. Chris: Have a great week, and thank you for listening.