Pre-episode Intro

Marty: Maybe somebody could show me something that I didn't know you could do a certain way, maybe it'd take me ten steps to do a thing, but maybe somebody else could say "Hey, if you do this, you can do it in four steps." And then, you're, "Wow, that's cool."

Liz: This is the Penny Forward podcast, a podcast about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I'm Liz Bottner, ...

Chris: I'm Chris Peterson, ...

Liz: And today, we have with us Marty Sobo, the co-founder of Unmute Presents, to share with us his entrepreneurial journey, and a little bit about what Unmute is. Hello, Marty. Thank you for being here.

Marty: Hello and thank you for having me.

Liz: Tell us a little bit about yourself and your blindness if you would.
Marty: I lost my vision about ten years ago, and previous to that, I was in the technology and music industry, kind of at the same time. I did video editing, photography, video production, and audio, and I also managed bands. I did marketing promotion, and all that kind of stuff in the music industry, and as well, I would help people with their technology, and, you know, computers, and set-ups, and all of that kind of stuff. So, when I lost my vision, I retired from the music industry, and then had to learn how to pivot into things that were more obtainable with vision loss and technology. So, I needed to sort of take a deep breath, and look at technology, and figure out, "How do you do technology as a blind person?" And that's kind of where my journey started actually.

Chris: Normally we start to talk by asking people about their education and their career. You just covered a lot of that, but I'm curious to know more about what was happening right around the time that you, uh, lost your vision and how your adjustment to that occurred. Could you go into more detail about that?

Marty: Sure. So, uh, going back to the years of when I had vision, I wore glasses from the time I was a teenager, just like corrective glasses to make my vision normal, or 20/20 as they would say, and, uh, at some point or another, my glasses started to not work as well. The prescription felt like it was getting weak. To me at least that's what it seemed like, not knowing any better. And I hated going to the eye doctor and getting dilated and doing all of those things, so I always tried to push it as far as I could without having to do that. And it got to the point where my glasses just weren't doing it anymore, and they were also falling apart. So it was one of those things where it was like, time to go to the eye doctor and get new glasses. So, I did that, and they said, "We can't give you a prescription right now. We're seeing some issues going on in your eyes and we want to send you to an ophthalmologist, an actual eye doctor, not someone who just prescribes you glasses." So, I did that, and they told me, "We need to send you to a specialist." So, they sent me to a specialist, and I spent two entire days in this specialist's office doing all these tests over two days. And at the end of the second day, they put me into the doctor's office, and the doctor comes in and says, "Well, it looks like you're gonna be blind. We'll try and retain your vision for as long as we can, but ultimately you're gonna be blind, so good luck to you." And walked out. I don't think he was in there three minutes. And at that point, I kind of froze over and went, "Wait. What?" You know, I was trying to register in my mind what he had said to me, and they kind of sweep you out of the office, and they don't give you any other information. "Call this phone number, and they can give you some resources, let you know where to go from here," they, nothing. You know, you just go out with what this doctor said, knowing I'm supposed to come back and do a bunch of different procedures they want to do, and what do I do now? I have no idea. I knew there was blind people in the world, obviously, but I didn't know anyone, I wasn't in that realm of being around blind people, I just knew they were out there. I had no idea who to talk to, where to turn, or anything like that. So that kind of was frustrating, and from all of that experience, uh, that's kind of what put in my mind, you know, "I don't ever want to have other people be treated like this, so once I figure this out for myself, then I'm gonna try and do whatever I can to give back, and make sure that people find resources, and have some kind of something, so that they can call, or have a place to turn to, or something like that." And so, that's kind of where my journey started.

Liz: Continuing along your journey, what is Unmute Presents, and how did it get started?

Marty: Once I lost my vision, and dealing with all of that, uh, I got a mobility coach to learn how to use a white cane, actually, and that was a whole experience in itself, because the person who was my mobility coach believed in losing, or using, your skills that you have as a person, and your cane, and not really using technology. He always told me that yes, technology is out there, and yes you can use it, and there's a lot of options, but what happens if the internet breaks? What happens if your thing dies? What are you gonna do if you don't have technology?" So, this mobility instructor really emphasized learning those skills, how to travel, how to use a white cane, and do all those things without technology. Which, let me tell you, was daunting to say the least. But he also was really involved in the blind community, he was involved in something called ACB, which is the first I heard of it, it was called American Council for the Blind, and he took me to a meeting, actually, and I kind of went to those meetings, I met people, I started going to, you know, other functions and get togethers where there were other blind people, and it kind of started with me talking to other people who were blind and have lost their vision, and their journeys and things like that, and as I met people and networked, and learned how to use technology with accessibility features, what I realized was, there was a lot of people who really struggled with that technology, and I already had a technology, uh, base, so the, um, use of the device wasn't for me a struggle, I already knew how to use it, I just needed to know how to use it, using the accessibility features. So, once I figured that out, and that happened pretty quick, I was able to start helping other people. People would ask me, "Oh, how do I do this? Oh, how do I do that?" And that was kind of where the technology part of it started for me, and as I kind of went down that journey, I started, you know, helping people, and as people found out that I knew technology and I was able to do VoiceOver and help people with, you know, their technology features, I would do that. I would just volunteer my time to help people. And that sort of turned into, you know, helping people individually, in the affiliate, and around, you know, I would go to, um, the senior center where we were at, and I would help people there, that's where our meetings were at, and then from there, I would go to ACB conventions and they would have me do, you know, talks to the people who were at ACB conventions, and that led me to meet my business partner, Michael Babcock, actually. And, um, our journey started by being friends, and then from there, you know, we just started doing stuff together, web design projects and different things, and getting involved, he was also involved in ACB as well, and, um, we ended up kind of just connecting, doing, it started with web, web design projects together, that's kind of how that started, and then we started helping people with their technology, and then we started getting into audio, and doing, you know, zoom um, workshops and things like that, especially, you know, around 2020 when the uh, pandemic hit, you know, life for everyone, as you guys know, Zoom, and everything being on Zoom, and your whole world, you know, you do through Zoom. But, the cool thing for us was we sort of utilized that as a tool to be able to really help other people, and actually, I know that for a lot of people that was really bad, but in the blind community, I've learned that a lot of people isolate themselves a lot, and they stay home and they don't leave their house, they either don't have someone to help them, they don't have, uh, someone to go with them to get out of the house, navigate around, a lot of people, that's really daunting and really scary, which I totally get, but, they end up isolating themselves a lot, and Zoom sort of opened up the world to a lot of these people to be able to connect to other people while able to stay home, in their own house. And eventually, that led to, uh, the ACB Community, and then we started doing ACB Community calls, and then from that, we started editing our ACB Community call, and putting it out as a podcast, and that led to more content that we did, and it kind of escalated from there. The really interesting thing for us about, you know, the whole business part of what we do actually was an accident. We sort of did it as a hobby and to help people to start with, and then it sort of turned into a business on its own, as we kind of went down, this journey. You know? Um, we weren't trying to make it a business in the beginning, we were just trying to help other people by doing, you know, helping people with their technology, and doing zoom calls in the community. At the time. And it kind of just grew from there. And the thing that we started out with, and we kind of have kept to all this time, and the thing that we're told that makes us, um, popular for a community call, or for a podcast, is, we kind of stand by a couple of things. One is, we tell everyone there's no dumb questions, you can ask anything you want, everyone has a different journey, and most of the time, technology is daunting, or people who are really into technology make it hard to understand, they lose, they use a lot of tech lingo, things like that. So, what we try to do is tell everybody, uh, "There's no dumb questions. Ask whatever you want, it, it doesn't matter, we'll do the best we can to answer your question for you." And the other thing is, in most situations, you are in a certain topic. Like for example you can go to a community call or listen to a podcast and they're only talking about an iPhone. And then maybe you've got to go to a different podcast to learn about Jaws. And Windows maybe. Or go to a different community call to learn about a different thing. Right? So, in our community call, we just say, "Ask whatever technology question you have, and we'll do our best to answer it," so it's kind of putting ourselves in front of a firing board, and we tell everyone, "Ask away." And we do the best we can to, to uh, answer your tech question.

Chris: Could you talk more about transforming into a business from sort of a volunteer effort? What was that like, and how would you rate your success as a business, compared to, clearly, you've been really really good at getting yourself out there as volunteers, and, and your, your teaching is, is excellent. How has it gone turning that into a business?

Marty: Well, like anything, um, you really have to then start about, you know, thinking about where you're gonna spend your money, how are you gonna spend your money, and what are the absolute necessities that you're gonna need in order to make yourself successful? So, you know, we do audio, and, uh, podcasting, and, you know, uh, advertisements, putting together advertisements, web design things like that kind of stuff, anything around that wheel house. So, you know, it starts with letting people know about you. So, you have to have a web site, so, okay. Building the web site, you try and do it yourself, so that you can save money there instead of having to pay a big developer, so, you know, you have to spend more time looking into what the possibilities are for you to be able to design your web site yourself, and, specifically, if you have a visual impairment, or you're blind. So, you know, it's a lot more trial and error, and yes, it's really frustrating at times, but in the long run, you save yourself money, and you also learn how to resolve your issues yourself, for, you know, I mean as much as you can. You still need to ask for help sometimes, because if you can't see what a normal person sees, you may need someone with, you know, good vision, to look, and to see that everything's lined up okay, the colors look right, and all of those kind of things. So, it's kind of a mix of doing it yourself, but also knowing when, you know, you have to just ask, and need that sort of extra little help, uh, a lot of people, that's a hard thing. Is to ask for extra help. Me, as someone previous to losing my vision, I was a very independent person, I want to do everything myself, A personality, I want to control everything. And having to learn how to ask someone for assistance is just a hard thing in general, no matter what you're doing, but you learn that in order to be successful sometimes, that's just something that comes with the territory as someone who, you know, doesn't really have any vision, or has very low vision, you just have to learn how to ask. You know? For help sometimes. So that's one thing. You know, and then, hosting, so you have to pay for that, that's a service where, it makes sure your web site's up on the internet, and people can go to it, you know, buying your domain name, which is, you know, your, dub dub dub dot com name, address, so that people can come find you. So, you try to do as much as you can yourself, knowing that you do have to spend a budget, but you try not to make that too insane. You know, so, when it comes to money, for example, you have to spend money, but spend as little amount of money as possible, while still being successful. And as you make more money, you can trial and error other things, you can grow, the other thing, in our, what we do, is, uh, you know, I love gear, I love audio, so that is something that I like to try out different microphones and different interfaces and all those things. You don't need to do that, you don't need to go out and spend all this money on crazy gear. You know, try to use the tools that you already have, or get something that is just really affordable right out of the gate. The most important thing in the end of the day, if you're gonna; in audio, or, or podcasting, or in anything for that matter, is that you just have to use what you have, and just start. You know, you have to just get your hands dirty, you have to just get out there, and whatever it is you're trying to do, you just have to start doing it. And as you, you know, make a little bit of money, you get a little bit successful, then you can start, you know, upgrading your gear. Or, maybe getting a better computer. Or, whatever it is that you're doing. But, you know, at the end of the day, the thing that is going to sell you, the thing that's going to move you forward, is your content. What you have to offer someone. And that's not something you can pay for. So, you need to just perfect that, get that out there, and just always know that you have to keep yourself grounded, and no matter what you do, there's always something new to learn from either someone or someplace, and you just have to be open minded to being able to teach, but at the same time, being open to learning. Because as much as we're teachers, we also have to keep up on the technology, and what's out there, and the new technology that comes out, different, you know, things, and the only way that's gonna happen is to be open to learning. And maybe somebody could show me something that I didn't know you could do a certain way, maybe it'd take me ten steps to do a thing, but maybe somebody else could say "Hey, if you do this, you can do it in four steps." And then, you're, "Wow, that's cool." 
so, you always have to be grounded, be open to learning, you know, and also be open to listening, as well as being able to teach the content, or put out the audio, or whatever it is that you're doing, uh, first and foremost. And just get started. Just put it out there. Get your hands dirty and do the best you can. You know? And then as you do that, get successful, then you can trial and error and you can try and move up and buy different things, and, you know, experiment with better gear, or whatever it is that you're trying to do. You know.

Liz: What, if anything, sets your company apart from others who may be in the same space in terms of providing technology support?

Marty: We are really open to our community, and, you know, letting people reach out to us, and if somebody cannot afford something for example, then we'll try to help them without, you know, charging someone. If someone calls me up and says "Hey, you know, I've, have a friend, or, I know a person, you know, they're struggling, they don't know how to use a phone, or any technology," I'll usually help people and I won't charge them, and you know, what I find out in this journey is that, you know, a lot of these people are in that same space I was when I found out I was losing my vision, and there was no, I didn't know who to talk to, where to start, or anything, and in those moments, as you start talking to people, I always, you know, listen to what people say, and ultimately what happens is, they're just really lost in the moment, because it's really new, and they just kind of want to ask questions. You know, because, like anything, when you're new to something, you don't know what it is, or how to do it or where to go, things like that. So, a lot of the conversations turn into someone being really frustrated because they don't know how to do the thing, they're angry, whatever it is. So, when they find out I was in a very similar situation as they were, it brings them down technol-- uh, ten notches, you know, and then they go, "Oh wow. Okay. You actually really do understand the situation that I'm in." And I say "Yeah. I was there. I do understand." And it turns into them saying "Well, could I ask you some questions," and I always let them, and then, it kind of just goes down a different rabbit hole, and once they kind of are able to know that there is someone out there that understands them, and there are places they can turn to get other help, and there are things that they can do and places to turn to, then that turns it more into a positive thing, and then you kind of go from there. So, that's what I do to give back, like I believe, like I don't want to leave anyone hanging in  that kind of situation, and, you know, especially when it comes to such a life altering thing. So, that's kind of what I do, a lot of people out there know that, and, of course, you know, we also try to find ways to make money in our business as much as we can without charging the people themselves. You know, we do have a club membership through Unmute, you know, which is education, and classes, and things like that, or teaching a thing, if that's what people want to do, and we get good response to that, but we also give back by really not charging for our podcast content, we put it out there, and  we do quite a bit of content, and people really like that a lot and they, we always try to teach a thing, so people will get something out of what we're teaching. We always try to make sure that we have, um, different kinds of topics within the technology space, and we make sure that we're always teaching something. So, they can learn something.  So, yeah. That's kind of what we do. And the things where we don't have to charge the people is by, you know, growth, by, you know, networking, talking to people, sharing what we do, getting more listeners, being able to do advertisements, and, you know, find other ways, through sponsorships and things like that, where we can still put our content out to the world, but at  the same time, it's not costing the people anything to listen and learn from the content we put out.

Chris: Marketing is super important to any business, but particularly to a brand-new business. What are some marketing approaches that you've found to be particularly successful, especially within the blind community where maybe some, some of the normal marketing advice might not apply as well?

Marty: I would say the number one, hands down best way to market yourself, especially within the blind community, but I would say this in any community, is just to get out there, and network and put yourself out there, talk with people, in the blind community you have all levels of people and their blindness journey, and a lot of people don't always understand technology, especially from the beginning, and so, talking to people is always the best thing. Especially when you can share your personal situation, so I would say getting out there, and being human. Like sharing your own personal journey with people. And being a little bit vulnerable. And even though it's a little bit scary, you learn, as you go down this journey that you're gonna be able to, if you're a little bit vulnerable and share your experiences with people, that that is going to ease the difficulty, or the toughness for other people, because the single biggest thing is that people who are losing their vision, or who have lost their vision, that they understand that there's other people out there, that have the same, or similar experiences, having to learn how to use a white cane. Having to learn how to navigate around a situation with blind people. How to figure out how to be social in a social situation where there's other people around. How to keep yourself safe. You know, and then of course, all the things, like, you know, if you crash into a wall, or fall down, or trip over something, or, you know, do something that is scary, or, you know, anything like that. As long as people know that there's other people out there that share the same experiences that you can identify in that way with people.

Liz: What are the future plans either for Unmute, or, and/or, for yourself?

Marty: Uh, well, for Unmute we want to continue to grow, put out content, that's, you know, definitely what we're always trying to do, uh, we want to always, uh, continue growing our club and doing all of our teaching, and coming up with different topics, staying relevant, making sure we keep up with the new technology so we can share that with, you know, the, the people out there and our audience, networking with other companies and doing collaborations, things like that. So, we just want to be able to stay relevant, and stay out there. So that we can grow, and so that we can continue to help other people. You know? We keep our goals not overly huge; you know, we want to just be able to stay relevant. Stable out there, be successful in helping people, and, uh, just continue to stay above water and be successful at what we do. We're not trying to, you know, get rich, or, you know, be the most popular or the best thing. We just, you know, want to be helpful to the people, and bring good content out to everyone and, and stay relevant with what the newest content is that's out there.

Chris: Is there any advice that you have for blind people looking to follow in your footsteps, or is there anything you'd want to share that we didn't think to ask?

Marty: Well, I would say that, you know, just be, if you are blind or have lost your vision, there's no reason why you can't be an entrepreneur, or you can't run your own business, you will have to start. You know, you have to just get out there and get your hands dirty and give it a try. And you have to remember that you can always ask for assistance from people, it's okay to ask for assistance from people, that is just a thing you have to do no matter what you're doing. But you're never gonna be successful if you don't start somewhere. And, you know, learning a thing, finding resources, that's always great too. See, be open to learning from other people, how they do it, um, but I would say that anyone can do it, you know, just because you have lost your vision, or are losing your vision, you know, there's still, you can be an entrepreneur, and you can be successful at anything, just like anyone else is. There's no reason why you can't, you just maybe have to do things a little bit differently, but you can be equally successful as anybody else. So, if you have the passion, and you really want to do it, you've just got to start, and get out there, and, and just go for it.

Liz: Where can people go to find more about Unmute Presents? And/or how can they contact you?

Marty: Uh, you can reach out by going to our web site, which is
unmute.show
and then if you have questions, comments, or have any q; thing you want to chat about, you can always E-mail us at
feedback@unmute.show
and that's how you can get a hold of us.

Liz: Well, thank you, Marty. Thank you for being here and sharing with us. We really appreciate it, and we wish you luck in growing Unmute.

Marty: Thanks so much. I appreciate you guys having me, it was great, and uh, we'll see you guys out there.

Liz: I would also like to take this time to thank the current Penny Forward sponsors, those being the American Printing House, or APH, Connect Center, Thrivent Financial, Wells Fargo, and World Services For the Blind. You too can become a sponsor by visiting
www.pennyforward.com/sponsorships
and choosing a sponsorship package that works for you. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization founded and led by blind people. Together, through education, mentoring, and mutual support, we help each other confidently navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance. To learn more about our online accessible self-paced courses, weekly and monthly workshops, one on one financial counseling, and more, visit our web site at
www.pennyforward.com
The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Liz Bottner and Chris Peterson with assistance from MOe Carpenter. Audio editing and postproduction is provided by Brynn Lee, transcription is provided by Anne Verduin, and the music is both composed and performed by Andre Louis. As an aside, all of those people I mentioned happen to be blind. For all of us in the Penny Forward community this week, I'm Liz Bottner, ...

Chris: And I'm Chris Peterson.

Liz: Thank you for listening and make it a fantastic week.