Pre-Episode Intro J.J: So, AT Guys, we are a primarily an online based brand selling blindness products, and we really try to focus on blindness products that are either interesting, or affordable, or ideally both. Chris: This is the Penny Forward Podcast, a show about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I’m Chris Peterson, … Liz: I’m Liz Bottner, … Chris: And today, our guest is J.J. Medaugh from AT Guys. J.J, along with his business partners, and we’ll learn about how that’s all shaken out in a minute, have done a masterful job of building a pretty successful company serving the blind community for a pretty long time now, I’m thinking it’s over ten years, and we’ll find out about that too. And, uh, we wanted to learn from him exactly how that’s all worked out, what he thinks is key to being successful in serving the blind community as a business owner, and anything else that he wants to tell us about. J.J, thanks for being here. J.J: Thank you so much for having me. Uh, you might, uh, hear a little bit of a, I guess there’s construction happening to my right out my window. I don’t know what they’re building over there, but that’s, you know, one of the things from work from home. So, I’m working from home and people are working. Chris: Well, we’ve got to build things, apparently. J.J: Yes. Chris: Including bypasses if anyone gets that joke. Um, tell us about yourself and your blindness if you would to start off.’’ J.J: Sure. So, I have lived in Michigan my entire life. I grew up in a town called Saginaw Michigan, and then came down here to Kalamazoo, where I went to school and graduated from Western Michigan University, with a telecommunications management degree. Really it was, I didn’t want to major in computer science because it required a math minor. I wasn’t gonna do that. So, went to school here, and, right after college, or right close after college is when I got into starting AT Guys. It actually has been 16, whew! Years. It doesn’t seem like that many, but it’s been 16 now, since 2008. I am totally blind now. I had a little bit of vision when I was younger. Uh, never enough to really read lots of print, so I grew up as a Braille reader, which I definitely still think is important, being able to read Braille, and a speech user for computers. Liz: Related to your education and your career, who and what contributed to your success? J.J: So, one of the cool things about college, and I often tell people, college is much more than just the degree. It’s a time to experiment. And of course, you can take that in many different directions, but as far as work and jobs are concerned, you can do these little side hustles, side projects, a lot easier during college. Especially if you have college tuition costs, things like that covered, it gives you a bit of a runway to experiment with ideas. So, during college was when the blindbargains.com web site was set up, and that was a site, especially at that time, that really focused on just finding deals on blindness products, uh, finding things a lot cheaper than they were available other places, so that was something that happened during college, I also worked on some other social media type sites during that time, and it was a way to bring in a little extra spending money, and also, kind of learn some of those business things that you need to learn to start your own business. So, we made a lot of mistakes then, in starting up and trying various things, but that really allowed, and kind of transitioned to AT Guys, which got started right near the end of college. Chris: Okay, so, tell us about AT Guys, uh, what’s its history and what kinds of things do you do as a company? J.J: Sure. So, AT Guys stands for “Access Technology,” the AT does. Actually, it used to stand for “Assistive Technology,” but we like the term “access technology” more these days. It’s the same letters, so it works out. So, AT Guys, we are a primarily an online based brand selling blindness products, so we are at atguys.com on the web, so people can place orders on our web site, or they can call in over the phone to place an order, and we really try to focus on blindness products that are either interesting, or affordable, or ideally, both. You know, so we’re not really headed towards the ten thousand dollar, six thousand dollar, notetakers. We want to do things that consumers and individuals can pay for, and afford, and that are accessible. So, some of its blindness products, things designed especially for us, like Braille displays or slates, and some things are mainstream products that just happen to be accessible. So, like the shocks, the bone conduction headphones. They didn’t design them for blind people, but they work very well for blind people, so we work with them and have worked with many different mainstream companies to sell their products and bring them to blind people. Liz: You mentioned screen readers. Do you also have products for those people who may identify as being low vision? J.J: So, many of our products work for anyone. So, say the bone conduction headphones, Bluetooth speakers, keyboards, things like that, you don’t have to be blind. You could be sighted. And use a product like that, it works for anyone. Um, we don’t particularly carry any low vision products currently, although we are looking at some video magnifiers and some things like that to broaden our reach in that area. Chris: So, what were some of the things that you needed to do to, uh, get set up as a business, and to get the word out about AT Guys? J.J: So, the getting started is the easy part, right? So, you talk to people like, “Oh, you started your own business!” Well, in Michigan, that involves just getting a license, paying fifty bucks for an LLC, which is the route that we went, and, you know, filling out some forms. Wala. You have a business license. That doesn’t get you any money, or do anything, as we all know, so you have to do a lot more than that, because what’s a business if no one actually knows about it? So, one of the things that was really helpful to us, especially starting out, was having existing assets already out there. So, Blind Bargains. Especially. Blind Bargains was around for about, uh, almost two years, before AT Guys started. So, it gave us an existing platform of people to talk to, so we had already built some trust in the community. So, when we came out, and our first thing that we did was sell Mobile Speak, which was the old screen reading software for Nokea phones. We had some trust already built in, and we were able to transition from being a blog to selling products. So that’s always a piece of advice I’ve given to people. “Hey, if you have something that you’re interested in, putting out some free content first is one good way to start building up a following. ‘Cause then you’re not marketing to an audience of zero. You actually do have some people you can start with. Liz: You mentioned the cost of a business license. What were some other financial steps that you had to go through to get AT Guys off the ground? J.J: So, the biggest thing was having a little bit of money, like I mentioned, uh, we committed to doing Mobile Speak as our first product, so that was one of the first expenses was buying a number of licenses. I believe we had to buy eight to start, that was their agreement, and it was a little, uh, scary at first, right? Spending a couple thousand dollars on that just to hope that you resell it, and it, thankfully, it worked out. So, I had saved up a little bit of money from college, over the years, doing other jobs, working at summer camps, things like that, so I was able to pretty much boot strap it off of my own funds. I didn’t take out any loans or borrow money. So, that meant that we were able to start out and not have a loan, but it also meant that we had to start out really small. Chris: What were some of the challenges that you had to overcome once you got set up? J.J: I think a big challenge for me was just kind of having to learn a whole bunch of things at once as far as, you know, you have business advisors that are out there to help with starting a business, and those are great people, and we learned a lot from those, but there’s always these little things that come up. And then, for a blind person, there’s accessibility things that you needed to sign. It’s actually a lot easier now, that we have visual assistance services, we have a lot more things that are online, versus 2008 where things were, you still had to, you know, mail in or fill out a business license, so, thankfully, a lot of that early challenge has gone away now, at least in my state, of Michigan, as far as, you know, being able to do everything online, that’s gotten a lot easier. Managing time, continues to be, you know, even sixteen years later, a challenge. Right? It’s just, you know, the more you think, you get better at your business, and then it’s just gonna get easier. No, the more you make, the harder it gets, ‘cause you have more things going on at the same time, and you take new opportunities on at once, and just having to balance all that, have all these different tools to kind of balance things and try to, uh, get things done. That just remains a challenge. And, you know, we’ve tried various tools over the years, but you, you end up writing down a lot more things than you do at the beginning and not trusting your mind to remember everything. Liz: Shifting from talking about challenges, what were some of your earlier successes? J.J: So, I guess the earliest successes are when you sell something. Right? When you have that first sale that comes in, and you actually sold something to someone, especially if it’s a name, or a person that you didn’t know previously, just someone came in off the internet, and found your web site through whatever means and bought your product, that is a huge moment. Right, just having those first couple sales can be huge. And also, just connecting with some of the state agencies, and others, when you actually start working with them, and they want to come in and maybe not just buy one of something, but buy five of something, or ten of something. That can be just a really big boost to have an order. So, you know, your first order is a huge one, and then when you se like a larger order come in, like “Whoa! That is really cool. Now we have to make sure that we provide the level of service that is requested for that level of order.” So, just having those little things here and there. Uh, more recently, I was also accepted and graduated from the Ten Thousand Small Business program, which is run by Goldman Sax, and that is a program to help businesses grow, and become more successful. So I did that in 2020. It’s, that was a more recent success that really, I think has helped expand my business. Liz: Congratulations! Chris: Yeah! That could be a whole podcast in itself I suppose. I’m curious to know, I think you have a pretty unique company in the blindness space, and I’m curious to know what you think sets you apart. From other companies in this space. J.J: Many of the products that we sell, you could buy on those big, huge web sites that sell everything, but you’re not gonna get a level of support, especially when it comes to, “How do you use this product accessibly, or as a blind person, or as a low vision person?” So, we really try to provide a level of customer support, so we do phone, we do e-mail, we’ve added live chat now on our web site as well, so we provide a whole bunch of different ways that people can contact us. And, you know, we’re also really flexible with people. We try to meet people’s needs, we try to find things that are going to work for someone, we’re not gonna sell you a thousand-dollar product if we don’t think it’s gonna work for you, and you know, like, if there’s a hundred dollar product that would do the same thing, that’s what we’re gonna suggest to you instead. So, we really try to be honest, we try to communicate and have really good customer service, uh, I have two awesome staff that work with me, that help and do a lot of leg work in that area, and, we just, and we also just try to have fun. Like it’s, you know, work can be difficult, can be arduous, but you’ve got to have fun with what you do. And, you know, we all have a shared enjoyment of technology, and just wanting to help people make the most of it. And I think that just helps us have a lot of fun and enjoy what we do. Chris: That’s a good segway into the next question, which is, what are some things that you’ve found to be key to marketing to the blind community? And I ask this, thinking about a contest you held way back in the 20 tens, where you asked people to submit haikus via Twitter. And I actually won that contest, and I still have the Moshi talking clock that I won because of that contest. (Laugh.) Um, I’m curious to know if there are any other unique things that you’ve found to be successful in, in sort of marketing and spreading the word, um, that uh, … (J.J. laughs.) J.J: I forgot about that. (They laugh together.) Chris: Yes. I, I still love that. J.J: Do you remember the haiku? Liz: I was just gonna ask that. Chris: Oh, I don’t, but I, I’m sure that I could go find it on Twitter. J.J: Let’s find it for the show notes. Liz: I think it needs to go in the show notes. Chris: We’ll, we’ll look and see if we can find it. J.J: See, … (Liz laughs.) J.J: And that, so it’s those memorable experiences, right? You remember a random, just goofy thing we did on, then Twitter, over ten years ago. You know, and that stuck with you. So, I like doing lovely things like that. You know, like just, “Retweet this for your chance to win a pizza” I think we did once. And we just ordered some random person from some local pizza place. So, you know, that’s a good reminder. We don’t always have time or think to do those things, but those little touches, I think, humanizes a company. Right? You know, we can post about our latest products on Facebook, we’re now on Mastodon, um, uh, LinkedIn, but if all you’re doing is posting product information all day, then your brand becomes really stale. You know, if people come to you for content, for just cool blindness information, or any information, and things that are different. Right? So, I just, varying it up, having our social media feeds being something that, “Well hey, you never know what you’re gonna get from us today. It might be something about a new product, or it might be something that’s just way goofy. So, keeping people on their toes and just trying some different things and, maybe we’ll have to bring back the, the haiku contest. Liz: What are your future plans either for AT Guys, or for yourself? J.J: So, for AT Guys especially, like we are expanding quite a bit, uh, we are really just looking for more products that we can sell, as we work with more state agencies, and government entities, that helps us expand as well, school districts, things like that. Um, we are just looking for more cool products. So, we’re always open to ideas. If someone sees something that, especially if it’s mainstream but happened to be accessible so we might not be aware of it, let us know. We’re always um, willing to see what we can do, and see if the company will work with us to sell it. The latest one that we just added was the meter, which is a grilling thermometer that works with a smartphone. So, you know, that’s just a mainstream product that somebody recommended and said “Hey, that app works really well. You should look at it.” And we reached out to them, and we are able to, to add that along. So, adding things like that, and the accessible Zoom, uh, talking voice recorders. So, just finding more products, a wider variety of products, we just launched a new web site, so that is exciting as well, and just kind of doing more to help more people in technology. And I think that just, it all kind of ties together. Uh, personally, I’m looking to buy a house pretty soon, and kind of, just, you know, find somewhere else to live, and so you know, to try to find a balance between work and personal is also a, a, certainly a challenge and an opportunity with business, ‘cause it’s so easy to spend thirteen hours a day working on business stuff. Chris: Yes, it’s often possible to work more than thirteen hours a day on just business stuff. And sometimes it’s really fun, but uh, it can really get to be a drain as well. I can attest to that. What advice would you provide to other blind people that might want to follow in your footsteps? J.J: So, I could take this a lot of different directions, so I’ll try to distill this down to a couple points. One, starting a business is an excellent opportunity for many of you that are listening. And I do stress “many of you,” because for some people, starting a business may not be your cup of tea. If you prefer to come into an office, or work from home every day and have your plans laid out for you and know exactly what you need to be doing that day, then maybe starting a business isn’t for you. ‘Cause there’s a lot more improv, for lack of a better term, to say, “You just kind of need to figure out what needs to be done next, and you need to make sure it gets done or have someone else that’s gonna get it done. ‘Cause, it’s your business. If you don’t make sure it gets done, then it might not get done at all. And then, you’re not gonna get paid for the things.” So, if you need that really steady paycheck, then you might want to look somewhere else, at least in the beginning. Like I mentioned, starting a business can be really good to do while you’re doing another job, at least starting out. If you have another job that you have, or if you’re in school, having that side hustle can be a really good way to get things going without taking as much risk, for sure. And just building up a following ahead of time. So, when you do go to start a business, people can be aware of what you are doing. So, the more that you can either build up an e-mail list, or build up a web site, or a Facebook group, or whatever platform that you prefer to communicate with, the more you can build up interest ahead of time, the more you will be successful when you actually go to promote and start your business. Liz: Is there anything that you would like to share with us that we have not asked you about? J.J: Um, so I would say that, you know, starting a business can be a lot of fun. It’s certainly has taken a lot of energy, but it’s something that can be really rewarding in the end. I would encourage you to connect with other blind and low vision business owners especially, because there are a lot of things, especially when it comes to tools and apps, where there are more accessible apps versus others that are less accessible. So, you know, when it comes to accounting, for instance, QuickBooks is pretty good, and there’s a couple others. You know, same thing if you need to do customer service, or e-mail, or invoicing, there’s a whole bunch of different tools. So, connecting with people, I think, is a good way to go, to try to get some of that information. And we’ll make sure that my contact information is available as well in, in the show notes. Chris: All right. Well, speaking of contact information, it will be in the show notes, but uh, do you want to give some out here for people who are listening? J.J: Sure. So, you can contact us in several ways. Our web site is Atguys.com So that’s A as in Apple, T as in Tom, G U Y S, dot com, if you have questions about the products or services that we offer, you can e-mail us at support@atguys.com that is S U P P O R T, at AT Guys dot com. And if you do have any business questions, things like that, you can send them there as well, and they will get to me. Um, or one of my other awesome staff, who also happen to own their own businesses. We actually all do that, so, it’s uh, I think a, a great resource. So, if you want to contact us in that way, that’s totally fine. We also do have a phone number, that is 269-216-4798. Again, 269-216-4798. Chris: All right. Well J.J, uh, we’re out of time, but thank you so much for being here, and for sharing your thoughts about how to be a successful business owner. J.J: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Chris: Before we go, we’d like to thank our sponsors, the APH Connect Center, Wells Fargo, Thrivent, and World Services for the Blind, for their help, and if you would like to help sponsor the podcast, we have sponsorship packages that fit almost every budget. Visit our web site at Pennyforward.com/sponsorships To learn more. The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Chris Peterson and Liz Bottner, with help from MOe Carpenter, audio editing and postproduction is provided by Brynn Lee, and text transcription is provided by Anne Verduin. The music is performed and composed by Andre Louis, and it’s not really a coincidence that all of those people are blind. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization founded and led by blind people. Through education, mentoring, and mutual support, we help each other navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance. To learn more about our self paced online courses, monthly and weekly workshops, and one to one financial counseling, visit our web site at www.pennyforward.com and we hope you will consider joining by selecting the “join Penny Forward” link right near the top of the page. Now, for all of us in the Penny Forward community, I’m Chris Peterson, … Liz: And I’m Liz Bottner. Chris: Thanks for listening and have an awesome week.