Pre-episode Intro

Nella: I did come to the realization that the food I purchase in the grocery store is never as good as the food that I grew up eating, so how do I get that good food, those really great tomatoes? I have to grow it.

Chris: This is the Penny Forward podcast, a show about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I'm Chris Peterson.

Liz: I'm Liz Bottner.

MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter.

Chris: And today, we are going to be talking about Homesteading By Touch. We're gonna learn exactly what that is, what it means, and our guest is Nella Foster, who lives it, and is gonna tell us all about it. Nella, thanks for being here.

Nella: Thank you.

Chris: First of all, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your blindness, or your connection to the blind community?

Nella: Yeah. I am Nella Foster. I am totally blind. I was born with an eye condition that got worse as I got older, so when I was young, I could, you know, see colors, shapes, movement. I could read small print. I had to get kind of close to it to read it, and then, you know, later, I, I had to read large print, but I don't think we realized how little I could see until, (chuckle.) One day in school, um, this boy in my class said, "Why are you smelling your book?" And I'm like, "I'm not smelling my book, I'm reading," but, you know, I realized I was having to get closer and closer to, to see the print. So, I, I grew up in rural Arkansas in a farming community. I guess accommodations and stuff weren't the greatest there. It was before ADA. So yeah, then as, as I aged, my vision got worse. I lost most of my vision in high school, and the rest of it in college, and it kind of happened gradually. I finally realized I couldn't see anything at all. I got in bed one night, and I realized, "I don't know if my light is off or on." I, you know, I was in the habit of turning lights off and on, and I had to get up and feel of the light switch to know that I had remembered to turn the light off. So, I, I had several surgeries, um, tried different medications, but nothing was real, um, helpful. So then I, I had started learning braille, and using a cane and all of that in high school, and I, I learned braille pretty quickly, because I was afraid I would get behind, and, you know, as a high school kid, you don't want to be held back a grade. And then, I, you know, I guess over the years, I learned different blindness skills, technology, that type of thing, independent living, um, all of that over the years.

Liz: You briefly mentioned that you attended college. Can you speak more to your education and career experience?

Nella: So, I attended, I actually went to two different three-year universities. I started at a private college, and then ended up going to, um, University of Arkansas in Little Rock, and University of Arkansas in Fayetteville. I was a very, like, undecided young person. I really had no idea what I wanted to do. Had these vague ideas. So I studied health sciences. Uh, I started as social work, and then realized, "I don't think I want to do this," and then I did, um, therapeutic recreation, and then health sciences, and um, I was foolish and young, and I had, maybe one year, I had one year to go, and I decided I was going to take a year off and go to massage therapy school. I went to massage therapy school, I started working in massage therapy, and then I foolishly never went back and finished my degree. Um, I, I did massage therapy for years, along with, I worked at some different nonprofits as their volunteer coordinator. I worked at a humane society, doing both their volunteer coordination, and their education coordination, and then I ended up in Arizona, and I worked for the state of Arizona, as a, a rehab support specialist. And then I did that same type of work at a nonprofit, um, independent living center for the blind, that, you know, we contracted with the state of Arizona and did independent living. So, I taught a lot of braille, and daily living skills. And some basic computers.

MOe: Can you tell us a little bit about Homesteading By Touch? What is it, and where did it come from?

Nella: So, as I mentioned, I grew up in a rural farming community, and when I was young, I thought I wanted to really have nothing to do with that lifestyle. My Um, my mom is an avid gardener. We raise beef cattle both for our own use and to sell to market. Most of the produce we grew was for us, although my mom, my mom was doing organic before organic was really a thing, and so we, we were selling to some, um, local restaurants and such. So, I really, when I was young, I thought, "This, I don't want this lifestyle." I remember saying to my mom, "Why can't we just buy food from the grocery store like normal people? Why do we have to be out here, you know, weeding all these gardens and all of this?" So, you know, so I moved away, went to college, worked, had all these experiences, and I don't know. I think herbs was the first thing I started growing, and I realized that I liked just growing things. That I liked, you know, just the plants. So at first it was just flowers, and herbs, and then I'm like "Well, why not a tomato or pepper?" Because I did come to the realization that the food, I purchase in the grocery store is never as good as the food that I grew up eating, so how do I get that good food, those really great tomatoes? I have to grow it. So, gardening I think for those of us that are avid gardeners, it's a slippery slope. You start with a few plants, and before you know it, it's getting out of control. So that was kind of what happened, and then, oh, I guess about ten, fifteen years ago, fifteen years ago. I started having some health issues, and I really wanted to eat as healthily as possibly, you know, as possible, as cleanly as possible. So, I really got more into growing more, you know, cooking more organic, I got chickens so I could have my own eggs, and I'm, I'm honestly I like, you know, very much worry about the animal welfare in large scale agriculture production. So that was another reason that, uh, made me want my own chickens, and then at some point, I had a place where I could have goats, and then I could have my own milk, and make my own cheese. So, it's just, it kind, it's evolved over time, and then, um, I got, you know, I'm thinking, "I'm not meeting any other blind people that are doing this. A few gardeners, but not many." And then, the American Council of the Blind has their community calls, and they started, once a month, um, two women were leading a group that they called, um, "Home Garden and Agriculture." And I started listening to that, and then I made contact with one of them, and we started talking. And I said "We need to have a listserv. We need, you know, so people can share ideas, 'cause there's obviously some interest." And nobody did it, so finally, I'm like, "I'm just gonna start my own list serve." And I didn't really want to be associated with ACB or NFB, because I, I wanted everybody to feel welcome and not that, you know, I didn't want people to feel, there could be the politics that can be involved with those groups sometimes. So, a friend and I kind of kicked some ideas around for names, and we came up with Homesteading By Touch." Um, I started announcing it on the Home Garden and Agriculture group, and I think we have about thirty people signed up now. A lot of gardening talk, other, we've talked about canning, um, making jams, jellies, all that kind of stuff, keeping chickens, keeping other livestock, sometimes home repairs, and then, somebody got the idea that, "Why don't we read and discuss a book?" So now, once a month, we read a book, that is somehow related to homesteading, and then we would discuss that once a month, we just had our discussion last night. So, the women who had started the Home Garden and Agriculture discussion on um, ACB has stopped doing that, so I hope to pick that up in a small way, um, where bring in some people, like, next month I have a guy who's going to talk to us about solar, um, who has his whole house set up in solar. And I think we're going to have an herbalist talk. So that is Homesteading by Touch. It is a, a listserv, and then we, we do have the monthly book discussion as well.

Chris: I have a perception that I am sure many people share, that this kind of lifestyle isn't the easiest lifestyle for a blind person to live. For a lot of different reasons. And I'm curious to know what you would, how you would respond to that. What are some of the things that make it possible for you to live this kind of a lifestyle, and to, to show other people how to?

Nella: So, I don't know if I would say difficult, and I also want to stress, I think when people think homesteading, they think a lot of land, maybe in the middle of nowhere. And to me, I think it's more of a mindset. And I actually told the group I was going to be speaking with you all, and what would they like for me to mention? And that was, you know, more than one person mentioned that. That we think of homesteading as a lifestyle. So maybe you live in an apartment. Maybe you can only have a few herb plants, or a pepper or a tomato plant. But there's other ways, you know, you can maybe buy vegies in bulk, and then freeze them, or can them. You know, maybe you're buying berries in bulk, and then you're canning them yourself. And I, I think there is a little bit of preparedness. I think that those of us that homestead more, you know, we're more likely to have, you know, enough food on hand, you know, to last a little bit. You know, we're not running to the grocery store every couple of days. I think we're more likely to be, you know, be making some things, um, reusing things, recycling things. Um, most of the people I know, I think of as being pretty frugal by nature, so, so it's more than just, you know, having the land, and deciding you're going to have dairy goats, and chickens and beehives and all the things. I know people that I think of as homesteaders that are living in very urban environments. Some of the, I would think harder things, as a blind person. Let's see. I don't really know. I do find, you know, I know people in what I think of as the homesteading community that are sighted, that are not disabled. I do think it's a very welcoming community. People like to share their knowledge. You know, most gardeners love sharing their knowledge with other people. Sharing plants. Sharing seeds. Um, so I do think it's a very generous community, as far as, you know, sharing your knowledge and skills. Um, you know, if you do want to have the land, and be out a little, you know, that is a whole set of issues as a blind person. Because I've been asking different blind people, different groups over the years, and the people that I met that were blind that were living in more rural environments were usually married to a sighted spouse. And I'm like "Okay, that's not me, so how can I make this work?" And it took, you know, me deciding, "What's  important to me? How much freedom and transportation do I need? How much access, you know, how can I still feel that I have freedom and independence?" So it took a while, uh, researching communities, and, you know, figuring out, "What can I do to work from home to support myself, and still have this dream of a few acres, and be raising my, a lot of my food? And have the chickens and have the goats?" So, I would say, yeah, my opinion, the hardest thing would be if you really want to be out, in a more rural area as a blind person. I mean we all know that transportation is probably, I would say one of the biggest barriers in our life.

Liz: If someone is interested in pursuing homesteading as a possible area of interest, but just doesn't know where to start, and maybe can't change their living situation currently, what is, if there is something, what is one thing that you could recommend as a first step to getting started?

Nella: Um, I mean if you have any area for plants, you could, like I said, herbs are easy, you could grow a lot of those indoors even. You know, there's a lot of, um, plants that can grow in containers, and I'm, I'm seeing this trend. 'cause I, I'm always looking at the websites that sell plants and seeds, because it's a little bit of an addiction. But I'm seeing more and more plants that, berry plants, little trees, that are saying that they've been developed to grow in containers. So, I think there are more people that are, you know, have, a little tree in a pot on their patio. Or, you know, are, are growing things in smaller areas. So, I think that that's just a real trend in society, so, I would say that, and then, I mean, even little things like sprouts. I, you know, do the, the seeds, and sprout them, and, you know, to put in my salads. Microgreens are something you can grow, you know, right in your kitchen in little containers. So, those are, you know, some very easy ways to get started.

MOe: I will tell you, though, if you are putting little plants out on your deck that are berries, uh, watch out for the birds, because we got a blueberry this year, and I think 90 percent of it got eaten by a bird from around the neighborhood. (Chuckle.)

Nella: Yeah, there, there are, I mean a lot of berries, fruits, you know, any, any gardening, they do attract wildlife, birds, rabbits, all that kind of thing.

MOe: Uh, so, my next question is, what does your current homesteading experience look like?

Nella: So, I'm gonna be really honest. I think I took on way too many projects this spring, (laughing as she continues:) And I feel like I haven't done a real good job at any of them. Um, but I had goats already, and I, and I have had, bred goats before, but I bred my goats in the fall, so I had kids this spring, which was fun, but they were time consuming. I had had chickens before, and, but I didn't have any, so I added chickens this spring, and then, I do most everything in raised beds. I just find it easier to keep track, easier to weed, so I got this brilliant idea that I was going to basically double my raised bed growing area. And I am still moving loads of dirt from my giant dirt pile into these new raised beds. So, I didn't actually get quite as much stuff planted this year, (Chuckle.) But my goal is to have everything ready for this spring. And I have done a little bit of fall gardening, which is like your greens, radishes, um, sugar snap peas, that, you know, the cool weather things. So, um, oh, and I planted, I planted several things this spring that are kind of long-term investments in the gardening world. Um, asparagus. You know, that takes a while for it to get ready and to be able to harvest it. I planted, um, some fruit trees, and again, you know, that we are looking at a few years before I will see the benefits of this. So I, I feel like a lot, I, I started a couple of strawberry beds, so these are things that I, strawberries I'll probably get next year, but it will probably be the year after that, a couple years, before I benefit from the asparagus, and, you know, maybe three or more years before I see anything from these little fruit trees.

Chris: On a plot of land, where there's, you know, not a lot except for things that are growing, you know, transportation is a big challenge, but I just think about the orientation and mobility challenges of, of, navigating a large, unstructured plot of land. How do you go about doing that, and making sure that you don't, um, you know, get, get lost or something? 'cause I've gotten lost in my, in, in my back yard, I'm embarrassed to say.

Nella: Uh, I have five and a half acres, which, you know, in the farming world is nothing, but, so some of it is lay of the land. Like the front part of my property is pasture, and as you go back, it goes downhill a little, crosses a ditch, and then it starts going up, and then you get into trees. So, I know, if I'm in trees and I'm going uphill, that I'm going west. And my place is fully fenced. So, I guess if I really got disoriented, I could, I know if I go far enough in any direction, I'm going to come to a fence,) chuckle.) And I could follow it around. I've never had to do that. Um, like I said, there's just kind of landmarks or certain trees that I can recognize, sounds, 'cause I'm on a, not a busy, busy road, but a reasonably busy road, so, you know if I, that the traffic is either, it's, the, the road kind of curves around my property. So, if I hear traffic, I know that that's going to be east, or north. And again, I know if I'm going uphill, that I'm going west, so there, there's just some markers like that that I use.

Liz: For those situations, or tasks, when you may need to have some sort of assistance or help, what is your current support system for receiving that help, and what would you recommend to someone who, again, maybe wants to get started and explore the idea of homesteading, but may not have, uh, the support system around, or know of a support system around that could help them?

Nella: Like I have met a woman in the homesteading community that's really into goats. You know, she raises goats, you know, has lots of goats. So, I, if I have goat questions, or need help, she will, you know, if I thought there's, I thought there was an illness, she would come and let me know what she thinks.  So I have that, that contact. Uh, there's a retired gentleman that lives down the road from me that I can pay for driving, actually, he doesn't so much like to be paid, but, you know, I will pay him with eggs, or produce, or bake a loaf of bread, or something like that, 'cause I, I don't want to take advantage of his kindness and I, I want to be able to reciprocate. It's very important to me to be able to reciprocate. I have another neighbor that, you know, if I really need help, I could call her, but again, I, I don't want  to take advantage of that, so I only ask her for assistance, like, once I had a dog that needed to go to the vet. And, I think, as far as information, there's a lot of good information out there. There's great books, there's all kinds of stuff on the internet, there's these, um, homesteaders that have YouTube channels, that you can get good information. You know, if you have a local nursery, those people are a wealth of knowledge. Your county extension office, they're a wealth of knowledge. The, you know, the master gardeners share information. And they're, the county extension even does some classes on planting, and gardening, and keeping different types of livestock. And even, you know, our, we have a local farm supply store. Those people have always been very informative and helpful. So, as I said, as, as far as a group sharing information, I do feel most people that are into the homesteading lifestyle are very, very supportive of new people wanting, um,  to get involved and get information.

MOe: How do you feel that homesteading has impacted your financial life?

Nella: Um, you know, I grew up with us doing so much. I mean we were growing most of our own vegetables, we were producing our own meat, our own eggs, so, I think, I, I got away from that for a while, 'cause, like I said, I went through that whole thing. Like I wanted something totally different than my parents. I wanted to live in a city and have all the conveniences. And I did that. And I'm glad I did that. But, you know, making the choice to, I was living in Phoenix Arizona, and making the choice to move to Southwest Missouri, and get a little piece of land, I was fortunate that I was purchasing a home in Phoenix, that the market was good, so I was able to sell, make a sizable down payment here, I have literally cut my mortgage and utility cost in half by doing that. So, yeah, there's some inconveniences, I can't really walk to anything. I, I'm close enough, I'm right outside the city limits, so I can get on Lyft, Uber, um, a taxi, we do have some limited county bus services, it's not great. I would never, um, say trust it, (Chuckle.) To get me to and from work, and that was one of the things I had to look at is, what, you know, "What can I do from home to support myself?" And I'm, I've been boarding dogs, um, through Rover, and Wag, and then just some, you know, by making my own connections. So that's what I've been doing for money. It's been working out really well. I'm, um, I, I, yes, I'm making less money, but it's taking a lot less money for me to live.

Chris: How do you handle things like, uh, mowing and maintaining such a large property?

Nella: I have a horse, and eight goats. And they have access to most, uh, they have access to all the wooded area, and the pasture, and I probably only have half an acre where I have my garden, my trees, I have a couple of fenced areas for the boarding dogs, and, and I do pay a local guy, he has his own, um, lawn service. He does my yard, and, in the summer. So, I do pay him, and the rest of it, you know, they keep it pretty cleaned up. Um, I usually have someone come and mow the pasture area once a year, it just makes your, your, um, pasture healthier to do that, so I usually do that. And then, I've had a little issue in the back with some trees, like dead trees falling, and I, a neighbor did cut some out for firewood, and I was feeling bad 'cause I have two or three downed trees, and some brush back there, and then I started reading about all of the wildlife that I'm giving habitats to. So, I just think I don't care if it looks bad now, I'm just going to pat myself on the back for all the wildlife habitat I'm creating. (Chuckle.) And then I have a handy man for, you know, repair type stuff.

MOe: I know we're running short on time, so how about you tell us how to get a hold of you?

Nella: People can E-mail me directly. My E-mail is jellybean farm, J E L L Y, bean, B E A N, farm, F A R M, at gmail.com. Jellybean was my very first goat, so that's why my E-mail is Jelly Bean Farm.

Liz: And a note to our listeners, uh, we will put the information to subscribe to the list serve in the show notes.

Nella: Okay.

Liz: If you need that outside of the show notes, feel free to contact us, and we will provide that to you.

Chris: Well, Nella, this is very interesting, and, and, very unique. So, thank you for sharing with us today, and I would love to hear more about how this continues to go for you as time goes on.

Nella: Well, thank you. I know, you know, over the years, I've met, especially older people who told me they enjoyed gardening, and then after losing their vision, they thought they couldn't do it anymore. So, I, I really hope that we can make contact with some of those people and let them know that it's still very possible.

Chris: Absolutely. I, I firmly believe, and I think we all do, that almost anything is possible if you have enough drive to figure it out. And our goal with episodes like this is to give you a taste of what's possible, and if you have the drive to figure it out, I hope you'll go and join the, uh, listserv, and get in touch with Nella, and the, the network that she has of people that are doing this, and, and, figure it out. Again, Nella, thank you. Before we go, I'd like to thank our sponsors, Wells Fargo, Thrivent, and our valued partners, the APH Connect Center, World Services for the Blind, and Computers for the Blind, for all of their support and help with Penny Forward. The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Chris Peterson and Liz Bottner, with help from MOe Carpenter. Audio editing and post production is provided by Brynn Lee, text transcription is provided by Anne Verduin, and the music is composed and performed by Andre Louis. All of those people are blind. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization founded and led by blind people. We empower each other to navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance. We do that by offering self-paced online financial education courses, weekly and monthly group workshops, and one on one financial counseling. You can learn more, and join us, by visiting our website,
www.pennyforward.com
A membership costs just $9.99 a month, or 99 dollars a year, and we have quite a few promotions throughout the year, so, uh, if, if that's not within your budget, stick around. Something will come up. Now, for all of us in the Penny Forward community, I'm Chris Peterson.

Liz: I'm Liz Bottner.

MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter.

Chris: Thanks for listening and have a great week.