Pre-episode Intro Craig: We are basically an ecommerce website, and a flight booking website. But the key difference is that we have optimized Innosearch for screen reader, and we have simplified, so that, there's no ads, there's no clutter, there's no sponsor products, and it's just the basic and very simple, and very easy, E-commerce experience. Chris: This is the Penny Forward Podcast, a show about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I'm Chris Peterson. MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter. Chris: Today, our guests are Brian Vung and Craig Co. Brian is the cofounder, and Craig is the head of growth for Innosearch.ai an innovative, online retailer, that helps to simplify the shopping experience for people with blindness, low vision, and anywhere in between. This is a site that our former development manager, Jean Parker, recommended that I check out a few months ago, and I've got to tell you, that it is really really neat. It's an online store that provides product listings from thousands of different retailers in a simplified interface, that makes it easy for anyone, whether you're sighted, blind, low vision, or anywhere in between, to find a product, learn enough about that product to decide whether you want to buy it, and then, actually go ahead and purchase it, all from a consistent interface. It also has a feature that I've found to be a game changer for me. It allows you to schedule airline travel. Yes, it has a flight search interface. And I'm sure that there's much more coming in the future, there may even be more than I, uh, know of, because things are just changing that fast, so Brian and Craig are here to talk about what they've got going on right now, how it can help you, and what's in store for the future. Brian, Craig, thanks for being here. Brian: Thanks for having us. Chris: Uh, Craig, if you would start out talking about Innosearch, and, um, I'm curious to know if any of you have any connections to the blind community, and if the answer is, uh, "yes" or "no," how did you come up with the idea for Innosearch, and, uh, bring it to fruition? Brian: So, we started out Innosearch about a year ago, and at the beginning, basically we were looking into AI to help the online shoppers. To make their job a lot easier. And after a lot of testing, a lot of user study, we figured out that the blind and visually impaired, uh, community actually has the biggest benefit from the tool. So, after that then we decided that, uh, we would just focus on the blind and visually impaired people. We see the value our product, uh, actually brought to those, uh, people. And as we built more, and we reach out more to people, we, we see a lot of enthusiasm, and we see a lot of interest in our product, and that has motivated us a lot in building it even more, and to add more feature. Chris: Craig, anything to add? Craig: No, I think Brian put it perfectly well. I mean, our leadership team, Patrick included, are all born innovators. Um, and we're also led by, using guidance from Dr. Kirk Adams, as some of you may know, the former CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind, and I think also the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind. He serves as our primary advisor, and together, they have decades of experience working in both startups and fortune 500 companies, like Google, Vata, Walmart, and out of this innovation, Innosearch was born. And we've gotten a lot of feedback from the community, and all, all positive, so, it's definitely a good signal going forward, and that's how we saw it, and here we are, building products for the underserved. MOe: Could you tell us a little bit about how you access this tool? Is it a plug-in? Is it website? um, exactly what process do you use, and please spell it out for us, 'cause some of us aren't so good with, uh, our putting words into letters. (Laugh.)) Craig: Yes. So, as of now, we have the website that our users can access, so you can access it on any, pretty much any device. We've built it to be compatible with many different platforms including, um, computers, iPhone, BlindShell, even braille displays. And simply just go on any browser of your choice, and type innosearch.ai that is innosearch.ai I double N O, S E A R C H, dot A I, um, alternatively, you could simply google "innosearch AI," and it will be the first link that pops up. So, yeah, we are, currently just offer the website, but a lot of our users have requested a phone app, and that's in the road map in 2025. Chris: Cool. And when I go to innosearch.ai give me an idea of what I'll find there. Brian: We are basically an ecommerce website, and a flight booking website. So, on the home page of Innosearch, first of all, you will see a search bar that can help you find any product. From five thousand plus retailers. And you can type in any query, any key words, of the product that you would like to look for. And then, under that, then we have several sections, showing the biggest and also the biggest views of the days, and the best sellers. Just like a very regular ecommerce website. But the key difference is that we have optimized innosearch for a screen reader, and we have simplified, so that there's no ads, there's no clutter, there's no sponsor products, and it's just the basic and very simple, and very easy, ecommerce experience. And on the flight booking site, the same experience can also be expected. Very simple, you just need to enter the departure, arrival airports, or cities, and the travel date, and the list of flights will be showed up. And you can pick one and go all the way to check-out. Very simple, and very streamlined process. Craig: Yeah, and I just want to add a couple of things there. As Brian said it pretty perfectly, there's no clutter, no ads on our website. For this reason, it's really fast for, uh, screen reader users to navigate from one side of our landing page to the other, and this is similar through all our product pages as well. And one of the ways that we do give all the necessary information for our users to make informed decisions is through our AI tool, which we could probably talk about a little later. For each product, our AI is framed, uh, to look into all the product pages. Let's say you're trying to look through an item on Amazon, right? Our AI has access to all that information, as well as general web searches. So, if you can think of finding, let's say, a specific product on ReadIt or Cora, it has the information from those reviews as well. And you can ask our AI using natural language, like you could talk to any other person, and it will reply just as, like a personal shopper. So, it's super simple, we give you only relevant information that you need, but on top of that, we augment that with the AI experience to make sure you have the most informed decision to make your purchases. MOe: So, since it's a shopping platform, so to speak, how secure is, uh, checking out and the full payment system? Craig: Yeah, that's a, that's a great question, MOe. We utilize Stripe. It's a really widely used payment processing platform with over one trillion dollars in annual transactions. And we use them because they're very simple, and they have very, um, advanced encryption. So, we actually don't store any of the private sensitive payment information, so our users can rest easy knowing that their information is safe. And the check out process is super simple. Um, as soon as you're ready to pay, simply go to the secure check-out, and from there, you'll be greeted with a simple form content with just a shipping address, E-mail, and the payment method of choice, and we actually offer quite a few payment methods, so our users have a lot of options, including Amazon Pay, uh, link, Google Pay, of course, credit cards, and even Crypto. So, we try to give as many options to our customers as possible. Chris: I know that it's easy for us to talk about this, and yet, some people may find it easier to understand what we're talking about here if we do a demo. So, I was kind of thinking about bringing my screen reader into the mix here, and walking through the process of, of picking out a product. Y'all okay with me giving that a shot? Brian: Absolutely. That's a great idea. Craig: Mhm. Brian: I love it. Chris: Okay. So, I have brought NVDA, as my screen reader of choice, into the mix here, and I'm just going to bring up Innosearch in the Edge browser, hopefully, ... NVDA: Loading complete. Chris: I typed it right. So, ... NVDA: Clickable link skip to main content. Chris: I'll just ... NVDA: Visited link current page Innosearch. Chris: Look at what I've got here. NVDA: Visited link current page shopping. Link flight. Combo box has auto complete editable search for a product or item. (Beep.) NVDA: Search com... Chris: I mentioned socks before, so I am just going to type in ... (types faster than the screen reader can really speak.) "men's crew socks." NVDA: Found five suggestions for "men's crew socks." Chris: All right, it tells me I have suggestions. Um, I assume, uh, Brian and Craig, that if I use like the arrow keys here, I can actually read what these suggestions are? Brian: Yes. That's correct. NVDA: Search list. Men's crew socks 1 of 5. Men's crew socks size 10 13 2 of 5. Men's crew socks size 9 11 3 of 5. Chris: Oh! Hey. That's my size. Um, so I'm gonna just try pressing enter on this. NVDA: Searching for men's crew socks size 9 11. Home Innnosearch AI, your ultimate shopping assist-- Chris: And, uh, ... NVDA: Found one hundred and twenty-eight results for men's crew socks size 9 11. Chris: Cool. Okay. So, how would I navigate here between search results? Brian: So, the search result have the same heading level. Chris: Okay. Brian: You can just use the heading. Chris: All right, so I'll navigate by heading. NVDA: H. Chris: Uh, ... Why isn't that working? NVDA: (with a beep at the same time) H. Start dictation. Chris: Oh, 'cause I was in the search box still. NVDA: One hundred and twenty-eight result-- Adidas men's cushioned crew socks. Six pack. Heading level 2 link. Dicky's men's DRI Tech moisture control crew socks available in Mxxl. 6 12 18 pairs. Heading level 2 link. Chris: Wow, that's, uh, a lot of pairs of socks, 18 pairs. Um, I'm just navigating by heading. NVDA: Hanes men's ... crew socks 12 pack heading level-- 6-pack Coover men's crew sport sock-- Adidas Men's athletic cushioned crew so-- Pull-i-more 6-- Dicky's men's DR-- Chris: I'm ... NVDA: Free delivery Saturday ... Link heading ... Chris: Going back to these Dicky's socks, and I'm, I'm going to use the arrow keys 'cause I'm guessing there's more details under the headings. NVDA: Free delivery Saturday February first. Chris: Well, that's good. NVDA: Retailer: Amazon Rating: 4.7 out of 5 stars over one hundred and ninety-nine-- Chris: Nice. NVDA: Price: 14 dollars. Button collapse submenu view price history for Dicky's men's DRI tech moisture control-- button collapse submenu 18 pairs. Reduced by over twelve percent compared to the original pri-- free thirty-day ret-- button chat with Innosearch for Dicky's-- button 12 18 pairs. Button add to cart Dicky's men's DRI te-- Button buy now Dicky's men DR:-- Chris: Okay, so, I've got all the details that I think I would need here, Um, on just this front page. NVDA: Button chat with Innosearch for Dicky's-- Chris: But I'm kind of curious, ... NVDA: One moment. Chris: About what this "chat with innosearch" thing does, so I'm gonna press that, and while I'm waiting, ... NVDA: Button close. heading level-- Chris: Oh, there it is. NVDA: Heading level 2 conversation-- heading level 3 your message, the Dicky's men's DRI tech moisture control crew socks are highly rated for their comfort and moisture wicking capabilities, circulation, and comfortable, pack options, button regenerate resp-- button copy resp-- check box not checked like response, check bo-- button what other sock brands offer moisture wicking features? Button how do DRI tech socks compare to regular cotton socks? Button what are the best practices for caring for moist-- button what sizes and colors are available for Dicky's DRI tech socks? Chris: So, these buttons are questions that must be frequently asked questions. Brian: Yes. So basically, on the search result, we, for each product, … Chris: Uh huh. Brian: We have a button for the users to start interacting with the innosearch, uh, chat bot. And the Innosearch chat bot is able to provide detail information about that product, by searching on the web, and taking the information from the product details. Chris: Cool. Brian: And after it has responded, then it also recommended like a few follow-up questions. 'Cause sometimes we see that the users may not be very clear on exactly what to ask next, so that is a feature that actually a lot of users love. Chris: And if I just want to take the plunge and buy now, I kind of want to see what that looks like. So, I clicked "buy now." NVDA: Loading pa-- loading complete. Stripe check-out. Powered by ... Clickable Pay inno-- 14 dollars. Dicky's men DRI tech moisture control crew so-- Chris: Now, I'm interested here because it says "pay Innosearch." Um, so, is that what actually is happening? Am I paying Innosearch, or I know the retailer is Amazon, so how does the money get from Innosearch to Amazon in this case? Brian: So, you pay Innosearch, and in the background, then, we have a set-up automation, and human, who actually makes the order on Amazon for the customers. The reason we do that because we really want to alleviate the burden on the checking out process. Because, you know, there are like, uh, thousand of retailers, and each of them have like, their own way of checking out, and many retailers don't have a very accessible checking out UI. So, in order to make a streamlined experience, and make it as easy as possible for the users, then we take that heavy lifting part. And we use AI to automate the, uh, checking out process. On the actual retailer. Most of the time. Chris: Okay. Brian: In some other cases where the order may be a bit too complex, or there are too many options on the retailer that AI cannot navigate, then we have the human, uh, customer service to do that for the users. Chris: I think, uh, I'm a technical person. Right? I, I've been a software engineer, and, and, I have used lots and lots of applications, and lots of web sites, and so I feel like I'm pretty competent at learning this stuff, but I can't tell you how many times I have gone through a, uh, a really difficult to use website, you know, thinking, "Oh! I found a great deal on this product!" Only to find out that I can't get through their check-out form. And sometimes I'll spend hours and hours, uh, ... MOe: You're not alone. (Laugh.) Chris: And I have better things to do, than spend hours and hours. So, this is pretty great. I, I, just want to give a quick tour of the check-out page, and then we'll go back to the, the interview, but I think this is really neat. NVDA: Edit add promotion code. Secure express check-out frame grouping pay with link button. Frame Amazon Pay use your Amazon account button. Email edit. Chris: Okay. NVDA: Name edit full name. Country or region combo box unavailable collapsed United States. Address combo box collapsed has autocomplete editable address. Combo box collapsed United States, plus 1. 8--- enter address manually button. Chris: I don't want my phone number on the air. NVDA: (as we hear a few laughs from others in the room: (Radio button not checked. Pay with card button. Chris: Uh, all right. NVDA: Radio button not ch-- pay with cash app button. Chris: (over NVDA: (Pay with card, Cash App, NVDA: Pay with Crypto button. Chris: Crypto, NVDA: Pay with Afterpay button. Chris: Afterpay, NVDA: Phone number edit unavail-- change button. Button. Pay button. Button. Button. Pay button. Chris: Curious to know what that particular button is, I'm ... NVDA: Clickable --- Chris: Guessing Stripe has some work to do there. NVDA: Try codes button. No next form field. Chris: But yeah. Very, very simple check-out process, it looks like. So, I'm assuming that if I were to go through the same process for booking a flight, that I would end up on a, a page that would look very similar to this. Is that true? Brian: Yes. That's correct. Chris: Wow. Brian: Currently, we rely on Stripe to do the check-out. They, to be honest, they do an okay job, accessibility. Chris: Yes. Brian: Not a perfect job. Because we have had some users complain that they, they have some difficulties navigating the Stripe page for payment, and it is in our road map in next month, to basically to build our own UI for check-out, still relying on stripe as the payment processes, for security, but all the UI's components will be redone by Innosearch. And it will make it a lot easier and simpler for the users to check out. Chris: Well, that's a good segway into a question that I have, and then, (chuckle.) I'll let MOe ask some of her questions as well. (MOe laughs.) Chris: Um, which is, you know, in, in the software world, things can either go glacially slow, or can be lightning fast, and things can change all the time. So, how fast are things changing at Innosearch, and, and what are some of the things that we have to look forward to in the future from Innosearch if, if things aren't perfect right now, as they rarely are in the software world? Craig: Um, one of the more recent, I would say features we are looking to implement is through a phone line. That our users and customers will simply be able to call and execute a full, uh, purchase, without the use of any screen reader, just through their voice. Brian: And the next very cool feature is the voice commands. So, how it works is, we are building a phone line, that's a phone line, that the users can call. And, on the other side, there's an AI agent to make the conversation with the users. And that agent is able to help to search for products, to do research on certain items, to manage a card for the user, and to process the payment. So the user doesn't even need to have a computer, or a smartphone. They just call a number, and then they can shop. And a experience on Innosearch. And they can have the items delivered directly to their doorstep. And also at the same time, we are also improving the AI agent on the innosearch web site, so that it can take the actions from the users. For example, the user can ask the agent to navigate the page. But the, something like, "go to the cart," or "go to buy," or "enter the credit card information." So, imagine, even with the computer, then, the user still doesn't need to use a screen reader. Just need to talk to the computer, and the agent will be able to navigate, and to do the shopping for the user. Chris: I feel like I'm living in the future. (MOe laughs.) Chris: MOe, do you have any additional questions? MOe: I do have some questions. Um, I noticed when Chris was going through the check-out that it said, "United States." Is it only available in the US at this time, or is it available elsewhere? Craig: Yes. So, we currently support shippings to the US, Canada, and Australia. Those are the four that we currently serve as of now, and of course we're looking to expand. MOe: Awesome. And then another question I had; I know that you say you work with several retailers. I like to do a lot of kind of off the main path shopping. Um, not, not risky shopping, but just with independent places, probably places that use like Shopify cards, and Etsy, and just those, uh, smaller, independent, you know, kind of things. Um, does this work for, on those kinds of sites, or is there a way that I could request that somewhere that isn't showing up in the search be, uh, accessible through Innosearch? Brian: No, I was saying that, um, the way that uh, we have the retailers on Innosearch is based on the API's, and the advanced web script? technologies. We don't work directly with each retailer because that is too much work for us, but, uh, if a retailer's website and products are available on the internet, then we are able to bring that information to Innosearch. MOe: Awesome. And then I had one final question, and that is, when you're looking at flights, I know, um, I recently booked some flights, uh, for myself, and places like Google Flights, the prices change a lot. So, how does the process work if by the time that I go to check out for the flight, and the price has changed, am I made aware of the price change? Um, is there a way to cancel it if it hasn't been processed before that flight is booked, or, you know, how does that work when there has been a price change on the flight? Brian: So, we honor the price that you see on the check-out page. So, meaning that, if you see a flight with certain price, and then you go and navigate somewhere else, and when you come back, then we'll update the price for you right before you do the check-out. And during the check-out process, we honor that price. Meaning that if the actual flight price has changed, then you still get the same price. MOe: Awesome. (Laugh.) Chris: And, before we wrap things up here, we are running out of time, um, how can people get involved? Of course, they can go to Innosearch.ai and, and use the platform, but there are other kind of initiatives you've got going on. Is that correct? Craig: Yeah. So, I would like to take this opportunity to, uh, talk about some of our community events. We have a trivia night every 6 PM Pacific, um, alternatively, if anyone has any ideas about where they'd like Innosearch to go, we're also open to that. Uh, am I missing anything, Brian? Brian: So, we care a lot about the community, and to be honest, we really need the support from the community to grow and to be sustainable in the long run. And we are willing to give back a lot to the community. So like Craig said, uh, we have the trivia night, and we are also having like forum that people can send us the feedback, uh, any request for features, and we recently launched the one percent, uh, cash back on all the purchases on Innosearch, so just check it out. Our email address is info, I N F O, at innosearch.ai Chris: Craig and Brian, thanks for being here. This has been really interesting. Craig: Thanks for having us. Brian: Yeah, thanks for, uh, having us. Yeah. Chris: All right, before we go, I'd like to thank our valued partners and sponsors. Of course, World Services for the Blind has been with us from the beginning, and the APH Connect Center is a big supporter of us as well. Our sponsors are Thrivent, Wells Fargo, the Nasdaq Foundation, and Accessibility Officer. And we really appreciate all of them, and if you would like to consider becoming a sponsor of Penny Forward, and being mentioned here on the podcast, as well as on our website, that reaches about eight thousand people a month these days, as well as our E-mail newsletter, visit our sponsorship page at www.pennyforward.com/sponsorships to find out how, and the packages there are starting points. We would love to design a custom sponsorship package for you. Just give us an email at sponsorships@pennyforward.com The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Chris Peterson and Liz Bottner with help from MOe Carpenter. Audio editing and postproduction is provided by Brynn Lowden. Text transcription is provided by Anne Verduin, and the music is composed and performed by Andre Lewis. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization founded and led by blind people. Through education, mentoring, and mutual support, we help each other navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance. We do that by offering self-paced online financial education courses, weekly financial education workshops held every Wednesday night via zoom, our Tuesday Turning Pages Book Brunches, MOe hosts those every Tuesday morning at 11 A.M. Eastern time, and we also offer one on one financial counseling and benefits planning services for people with blindness and low vision, provided by people with blindness and low vision. You can work with us either by becoming a Penny Forward member, at pennyforward.com/membership or by working with your voc rehab agency and your rehab counselor to work with us one on one. Just ask your counselor, and, uh, have them get in touch with us, and we will figure out what hoops we need to jump through in order to do that. You can also reach us by E-mail at pennyforward@pennyforward.com or by phone at 888-332-5558. Now, for all of us in the Penny Forward community, I'm Chris Peterson. MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter. Chris: Thanks for listening and have a great week.